Episode 64: White Fragility - w/ Dr. Robin DiAngelo

Discussions about race and racism in America are often led by African Americans and other people of color. Generally missing from these conversations are white Americans who have been insulated from racial discomfort due to our segregated society. Today, we interview Dr. Robin DiAngelo, author of "White Fragility: Why It's So Hard For White People To Talk About Racism,” and explore the implications of white fragility on our nation’s discourse about race and the experiences of everyday racism among people of color. We begin by defining “white fragility” and what it looks like in everyday life (38:34). We then discuss 1) the ways in which white progressives contribute to racist systems of oppression (40:56), 2) the barriers to discussing race and racism with white people (46:07), and 3) how racial triggers contribute to profiling and “existing while black” incidents (50:50). We also have a conversation about how universalism and individualism contribute to white fragility (57:10) and how the rules for engaging in conversations about racism are rooted in white fragility (1:02:27). We close by discussing the practical applications of Dr. DiAngelo’s work (1:07:45) as well as how to move forward and have meaningful dialogue about racism that leads to change (1:13:15).

Other Topics Include:

00:30 - Catch Up With Ty and Daphne

03:55 - BhD “Oh Lawd” News

33:55 - Introduction of the Topic

35:00 - Learn more about Dr. Robin DiAngelo

1:22:50 - Ty and Daphne Reflect on the Interview


  • Dr. Robin DiAngelo’s Website - https://robindiangelo.com

  • White Fragility: Why It's So Hard For White People To Talk About Racism - https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/566247/white-fragility-by-robin-diangelo/9780807047415/

  • A Sociologist Examines The “White Fragility” That Prevents White Americans from Confronting Racism - https://www.newyorker.com/books/page-turner/a-sociologist-examines-the-white-fragility-that-prevents-white-americans-from-confronting-racism

  • Stamped from the Beginning by Ibram X Kendi - https://www.ibramxkendi.com/stamped-from-the-beginning

Recent Posts